Private Equity Experience

Should Private Equity Soften Its Image? (Why Investors Say Absolutely Not)

• Emily Sander • Season 1 • Episode 37

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0:00 | 39:30

Is private equity still stuck with its 1980s "corporate raider" reputation, or has the industry evolved into something entirely different? In this episode of the Private Equity Experience Podcast, hosts Ed Barton, Rory Leaphart, and Emily Sander dive into a recent Reuters article claiming PE is crying out for a facelift.

The trio breaks down why average holding times have stretched to seven years, the rise of "growth equity", and how the industry is rapidly shifting toward a mutual fund-style model to attract retail investors. They also pitch their own rebranding ideas, including Rory’s "Value Creation Fund" (VCF), and debate whether PE needs to soften its image or double down on its disciplined, return-focused roots.

Plus, stick around for a nostalgic detour into 90s cinema as Ed gets uncharacteristically enthusiastic about a forgotten streaming classic

Mentioned in This Episode

  • Reuters Article: "Private Equity Cries Out for a Rebranding"
  • Movie Recommendation: Barbarians at the Gate (1993) starring James Garner and Jonathan Pryce (Streaming free on Roku)

Private Equity Rebrand Growth Equity Value Creation Fund Liquidity Premium Total Addressable Market TAM Retail Investors 401k Alternatives Alternative Investments Mutual Funds Barbarians at the Gate movie Private Equity Experience Podcast

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Who Are We?

Three insiders. One mic. All things private equity — explained. Hi 👋 We’re Ed, Rory, and Emily — a CEO, a CFO, and a Chief of Staff — here to demystify the world of private equity. Between us, we’ve sat in the founder’s chair, run PE‑backed companies, and worked on the deal side, so we know the wins, the pitfalls, and the jargon (and we’ll explain it).

Through the Private Equity Experience Podcast, our book On‑Ramp to Exit, and a library of free tools and templates, we share real‑world stories, practical strategies, and insider insights to help you navigate every stage of the PE journey — whether you’re leading a portfolio company, joining a deal team, considering PE, or just PE‑curious.

🔗Connect with Ed

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Podcast Intro

Welcome to the Private Equity Experience Podcast. Your backstage pass to the strategies, stories, and secrets that drive value in the PE universe. No filters, no fluff, just straight talk and expert insights to help you navigate the private equity world with confidence. And now your hosts, ed Barton, Rory Leaphart, and Emily Sander.

Spring Shirt Banter

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Blue. It

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

is it blue? Okay, I thought you were wearing

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Yeah, it's

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

a purple shirt for spring. Do you do seasonal clothing or are you just like, "If it smells clean, I wear it"?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Do I do seasonal clothing or does, does Rory

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

You, do you do, like, do you even th-, do you know what a seasonal color is versus a winter?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

No, I, fuck, I, I take away, yeah, I, I ask Alexa in the

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Fuck no

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

the, what's the forecast?" And Alexa tells me the forecast is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I go, "Is it sunny?" 'Cause my office is all windows, so it's like all windows in here. And so

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

yeah, magnifying glass

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

degrees warmer than the rest of the building. So Alexa says it's gonna be like 70 or 65 and over and sunny, it's short sleeves. And if I have to wear a coat in the morning, that's fine, I'll wear it. And then if Alexa says it's lower than that, then I go, "Okay, what do I feel like? Like, what's on the pile of clean clothes on the bed that I haven't hung up yet that I might wanna wear?" And that would happen to have been this shirt this morning, where they said, no, Alexa said it's gonna be 63 degrees and overcast. I was like, "Okay, so it's not gonna be ridiculously hot.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

So Alexa dresses you based on weather conditions and what's

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Yes, but, but doesn't do like colors and that horse shit,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah, gotcha. It's kinda like Kirk Cousins, like he doesn't think about what he's gonna dr- wear, he just outsources that to his wife, and he's like, "Pick out my outfits and pack my thing," and God bless her, she does it. So that's why he has some of the, like, Kohl's special sometimes shirts

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Which is fine.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

and shorts.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Dad mode

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I'm-- I get, uh, most of my clothes on Amazon

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Amazon basics, baby

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

on Amazon too.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Except

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Suits I've gotten all Bro- I've gotten new Brooks Brothers suits. I spent up for suits 'cause when I have to go to, into court, I'm like, "I can't look like a

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah. I do Amazon Basics, but not for clothing. I don't know. I do like

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Like T-shirts and stuff, it's fine. They actually have good T-shirts. You could go upscale on the T-shirts. They're like

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

I'm gonna buy you a Vuori T-shirt and you will never go back to like cotton,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah, those are nice. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

weird T-shirts. Yeah.

Rapid Fire Warmup

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Um, all right. Some rapid fire questions to get us into this episode. Are you ready?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Let's roll

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

I'm gonna warm my, warm my brain up here.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Crank it up.

Silly Rebrand Questions

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

If you could rename one everyday household item, what would it be and why?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oof I think I'd go vacuum dust sucker. Why? Obvious

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

was, I was, I was thinking of, I was thinking mops and I would call it a dripper

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Ugh, a dripper?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Ripper.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

How do you mop, bro? You're just letting it drip? You gotta mop

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah, you gotta suck that water back up

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

to s- to say I'm sliding the dripper

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Oh my God.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Okay. that.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

What

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

right. Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

a word that instantly sounds more expensive if you put the word artisan in front of it?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Everything that you find in like Whole Foods or something like that. Yeah. Artisanal bread. Artisanal,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Pay more for that. Mm-hmm. You're gonna pay more for that

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

yeah, maple syrup. Yep. Th- kind of along the same lines as Ed says. Artisanal, um Clothing, I think, you know, could, um, could, could like

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

vegan clothing

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

could imply, you know, handmade, tailored, you know, that kind of thing.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Okay.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. That's a good question. So much of that I feel like is pervading the world right now,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

If aliens landed tomorrow and had to rename Earth based on observing us for a week, what would they call it?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Boy

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I don't know, what do you call an ant hill?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I mean, an anthill.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I mean, when, when we're standing there looking at an anthill, how would we describe it?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Hmm.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Hive mind, puny,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

the way

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I'd be

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Frenetic activity, you know, happening on that little bump of earth or terra firma

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

there's these little yahoos

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

I think they, I think the aliens would be like, "These humans have a lot of range. Like, they can do lots of good, cool things, and they can also do lots of bad, cruel things."

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

You're, you're giving, you're giving us a lot of credit. 'Cause these aliens, if they've gotten here, they're a hell of a lot smarter than we are, 'cause we have trouble enough just getting a rocket to launch.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

uh, as we saw the last week or so with, uh, with the one with Jeff Bezos is blowing up down there in Florida. So, you know, from my seat, I, I'd look at it, if I was like one of these super intelligent fly across the, the galaxy alien things, I'd look at us and go, "These guys just run around doing a lot of stuff and they don't seem to, to make

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Mm.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

progress." It's kind of like, there's a lot of activity for not a lot of, for not a lot of results. I, that's why I'm like, what do you think about like an anthill? There's a lot of activity going on, but I just,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

of it there's these guys are running around. I don't know what the hell they're doing. They're not carrying food, they're not reproducing, they're just walking

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Well, I think they are doing stuff, but maybe not to the naked eye

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

species that's very good at extracting things

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

other

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Okay, just a few more here.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

replenishing.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

If you had to rebrand coffee without using the words coffee or caffeine or, like, energy, what is your marketing pitch? What does coffee do?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Essential to survival. You have to have it. At least that's how I think about it. Um-

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

the brow- the brown

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

The brown, ew, gosh. Brown elixir. When I was little, when my nephew was little, he used to call it wake up juice. 'Cause he'd be like, "Oliver, do you like

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

like

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

orange juice? Do you want apple juice?"

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

have a child brand

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

"Yes." And he goes, "And

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

cooler

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

daddy wants his wake up juice." And I was like, that is hilarious. That's exactly what it is. It's

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

That's,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

wake up juice. Like, yeah.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

pretty brilliant

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah. If your life was a Netflix series

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

uh, you know, late afternoon it's more like stay awake

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Stay righteous. Yeah, there we go. If your life were a Netflix series, what would the marketing team name this season?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh my God. Inflection point transition. Yeah. Yeah. Midlife transition,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

2.0

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I don't know. I don't know. That's a hard one

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

'Cause I'm one of those ants in the anthill just running around, not accomplishing much, but being very busy.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I, uh, yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

So maybe they'd call it The anthill season

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

M- m- what, but you're trying to be more purposeful, aren't you? Like a purposeful anthill

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Yeah, I am trying to be more pers-

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

This time it's different.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

That's, that's actually a great one. This time it's different. I've only reinvented myself five times, but this time it's different

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

All right.

Does Private Equity Need Rebranding

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

So if pri- so private equity has been called everything from,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Boy

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

like, vulture capital, corporate raiders, alternative investments. Does private equity need a rebrand? Rory, you brought this into our lives with one of your clickbaity articles, but it's a good one. Does,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

private equity need a little facelift?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Hmm. Well, I, I don't personally think so. Um, but you know, certainly the author of this article, it was sort of clickbaity, but it, what it turned into being, and this, this article was on, I picked it up on Reuters, and it was, uh, titled "Private Equity Cries Out for a Rebranding." what it was wasn't like some sort of, some sort of a scathing, know, attack on private equity. It's more like, it was almost more like a history lesson of, of where private equity started, how it's and where it is today. And some of the factors today are saying, "Hey, this is how this, this can be identified differently now amidst, you know, other businesses that have popped up that are almost adjacent to private equity." We've talked about some of that with private credit. so it was more just like a, a way to say, "Hey, it's changed over time. Maybe it's time to, maybe it's time to call it something different," you know?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Yeah, I think the, the one thing that struck me in the article was the, the element that the hold times are much longer now, and the liquidity

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Seven years on average. That blew me away, actually. Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

was, I was almost... And I, and I remember when we would talk to, like, private equity sponsors, we had a private equity sponsor at one of the companies both Rory and I were at, and they called themselves, "We're growth equity." You know, so we're, we're, you know, we're a growth equity firm as opposed to, like, just private equity. Private, private equity, I think, has gotten so large has encompassed so much that it's actually, like, going, "Well, it's stock market." Okay, that's nice. You know, you got like, what part of the stock market? You know,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

think private equity is due for a rebrand, but it's not a rebrand like private equity is, is, you know, the, the name I think has lost its, it's lost its precision meaning. It was much more targeted back in the, you know, they talked about the history lesson talked about, you know, Pinkus and, you know, kind of the, the, the, you know, KKR early days and, you know, LBOs and stuff. And I'm like, yeah, it's, it's moved so far beyond that. Like, it's not past that, it's beyond that. It's, it's, it's like broader than that, that I think it's now become one of those private equity doesn't carry that much meaning really. It's really within private equity, what are you, what are you focused on? And, and I think the way that with the longer hold times, with the, kind of different focus, the, the bulk of private equity now is really, uh, it, it's just not a sexy name, but you guys figured out already based upon Emily's questions. I can't, I'm not a marketing guy,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

you know, it's basically long-term semi-liquid growth capital

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

and it, you know, you- That's, that's not a sexy name, but... And honest to God, but that's what it is. I mean, it's really gotten beyond this leverage buyout vulture capital stuff. It's really long-term semi-liquid. So it's not, you can't flip in and out of it like you can in the stock market. But your return, because you've got a liquidity premium, is gonna be built in there. So you got your risk premium and you add a liquidity premium on top of it, which should improve your returns over general stock market returns,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

What's the liquidity premium?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

targeted to growth. Yeah, liquidity premium. So essentially what happens is you'll take a lower return if you have

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Okay

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

on your, on your money. So

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Just like a CD basically, you know

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Yeah. See, brilliance. CD will pay you a higher interest rate than a savings account usually

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Your money's locked up

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

account has less liquidity and the bank is then able to go, "I've got use of that money to loan it for that period of time, so I don't have to worry about kind of having to cover off a quick withdrawal." And so as a result, you know, it reduces their interest, interest

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

So do you think like private equity could stand as an umbrella and then there could be subcategories? Or does the private equity as a whole need a rebrand?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

But

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

so big, uh, that I think there will always be differentiation within it, for sure. And maybe like, at this stage, maybe you actually have equity firms that specialize in like shorter term hold periods. Like, we only do deals where we can do that. And, and, and/or you might even have-- And I, I've heard of these, I've seen them that like they, they put themselves out there explicitly as like, "We're in this for the long term.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Mm-hmm.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

we're here to hold a business for, know, decades even." And, and that's-- I've seen that happen with like family businesses where, an investor comes in and, you know, partners maybe even takes a majority stake with a, business and is just along for the ride for the whole, for the whole period. And so I do, to answer your question, yes, I think like under a bigger umbrella, like there is for differentiation in that category, 'cause I think that's one of the pitfalls is everybody thinks that every private equity group is the same. Uh, what I kind of feel like this would take a little bit of a marketing spin is, yeah, lean into that li- like illiquidity. Already-- Everybody already that's familiar with it understands that aspect of it, value creation funds comes to mind, right? Like that could be something that, you know, if I'm actually like putting something out there to, to rebrand. So private equity universe, let me know your thoughts on this, all of you listeners. But like a value creation fund, which implies that what private equity does is to create value through, you know, operational efficiencies, financial engineering, and being in tune with the deal markets for M&A. Like those are-- We talk about those ad nauseam in our book. We've talked about those things many times on our podcast. That's really all it is, and some people turn that around to be, use the darker side of that notion of saying, "Oh, it's just, you know, job slashing, cost-cutting, capital." I heard locust capital

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Oh, man

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

this particular article that made me laugh my ass off. Um, but like, but you know, just lean into the fact that, yeah, we are about creating value and we do it tangibly through these things. So, know, like I'm looking at that. I'm looking at like, let's say now that, now, now that, you know, in the future it's been signed to where people can invest some of their 401. I might look along these e- you know, you know, target date funds and other, you know, kind of index funds. I might like throw, you know, 10% of my holdings into a value creation fund, whether it's domestic or international, and be like, "Hmm, that seems different than this other stuff that's just traded with liquidity and, and, know, easily in and out of positions." May- that might be a good diversification play next to real estate or some shit like that, you know?

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

I like that. I like your idea a lot, and it has a cool, uh, like easy to say name and acronym like VCD. That's like a,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

there you

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

that's a good

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

think

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

thing to roll off the tongue. But I mean, there's so many things that can fall under the private equity umbrella. It's, it is getting kind of unruly. Like, I had a client just, uh

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Well, you could do like large cap private equity, small

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Long term, they're short

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

yeah, like, I mean, Blackstone would be an example. They're a publicly listed company, and they, they, they're-- I think they have $1.3 trillion under management, which is insane. Um, you know, you could invest in a large cap like that, or you could invest in, you know, a small cap that goes, know, heavy into high-risk assets, which would be interesting to think about. You know, like almost like a venture capital. It's almost like rebranding some venture capital into private equity, actually, like a reverse branding. You know, it's like making a, a, you know, a venture play seem more mature than it really is, but it's still got maybe the same risk profile, which you'd assign the same risk premium to perhaps as a venture

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

and when all three of us were in private equity land with this one company, it was like valuation, go, like whole time, like hurry up and go. And I was talking to this one client and they, they had a... It's technically a private equity firm, but their whole model is to find companies with, um, a small TAM where no one else wants to go in and just ride that puppy for like 15 to 20 years. It's like div- like growth, but like dividend plays and things like that. And I'm like, "That is not private. That's not the private equity I was part of."

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

pitch deck some hapless analyst is making where they, you know, make up these gigantic fake TAMs to make it seem really big. No, you're purposely making it small as hell so you can, like, fit this niche profile.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

'Cause no one else wants to go in. That's their whole model. I'm like, "That is crazy. I've never heard that,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

me

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

especially under the auspices of private equity."

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Sweet.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I think the other cool

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

you get outsized return, right? Because

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

basically you don't have... now have captured a, a market and are able to kind of spread your margins. So that becomes the, you know, a- again, from a private equity perspective, it's like, okay, and again, look at the business I'm in. at 3X EBITDA. equity is buying these businesses, they allow folks like me to do the initial roll-ups, and then they go, "Okay, now we'll buy it at 8X or 9X EBITDA." Where in a tech-enabled services business like we came out of, they were buying at 5X revenue.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

you're, you're

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah, 15X even though, yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

80X or 50X EBITDA," and this is like 8X EBITDA. But, and so they use that cash, they spin it off, and the TAM isn't, or it's certainly not a growth market, and the TAM is, you know, in some of these cases, the TAM's gonna be very small, total addressable market, for those of you that don't know what TAM is. But the, the,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

the... If you own that market, and, you know, we've talked about on some of the, some of these podcasts where you have like the specialty fishing equipment, you

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

You own that market, you have ridiculous return on equity. You, you're,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Hmm?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

a, you're a cash cow, and then you spin that, you spin that cash off, and it, like you said, Adam, it becomes a dividend play. It becomes a leverage buyout play

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

But see, like I always thought the dividend play was something that PE firms did not want to do. Like that was, that was almost talked about as a, like, "Oh, you failed to do

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Hmm, you're right

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

your investment thesis."

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

that's 'cause we were in a growth equ- we

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

equity as the, as the, the

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

their, their thesis was we want,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

the way we're going with this. Yeah. Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

three to five years, and we're gonna

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

the equity and managerial capabilities in order to be able to help your business get there. other private equity

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Exactly

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

what Rory's talking about. There's other ones that'll go, "No, what we're doing is we're gonna go... We're gonna buy this firm for 10 million. We're gonna borrow 6 million of it or 7 million of it, and because you, you've got ridiculous like 40% margins, and we're gonna use the cash flow to pay off that loan, and now we get a two X or two and a half X, but very low risk associated with that, and our risk premium, and we were able to lever the, the equity. So we've actually got a fairly good, you know, fairly good return on it, on equity, maybe four X return on equity, three X return on equity, but it's just addressing it a different way."

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

And in Rory's name,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

we're still talking about value. We're still talking about we're creating something that wasn't there or couldn't be there without us in some sense. And then it's a fund where it's like there's, there's still the model and the container of we're raising capital, we have these different funds

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

it's, it's almost becoming more like, uh, and I... This just popped in my head, but it's all because of the two of you talking about it. Really, private equity is now becoming more like mutual funds. And

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

mutual funds,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

are invested in, in public equities

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Exactly. Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

and, but it's, it's portfolios of that, and they're targeted. There's general funds that invest in everything. There's targeted funds, S&P 500 or, you know, small, small cap technology or, you know, growth, growth gold or whatever. And then you, you've got... And, and I think private equity is, is as, as useless a term as going, "I'm in the stock market."

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

what does, what does that mean?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

It really has become that

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

gotten to the point where, "I'm in private equity." Well, what, what does that mean? It, it's... I think private equity firms are gonna start positioning themselves and their funds, and have, like mutual funds do, and go, "No, this is a small cap growth equity fund," you know, or this, it may be a Blackstone fund, but they've got a bazillion little funds in there and it's a growth cap, a growth cap, uh, but it's less liquid, so you got a liquidity premium and you've got a liquid- You pa- you basically have to, have to get compensated for that lack of liquidity. But that's... And, and they may be smaller investments and you're expecting a higher return because of the liquidity premium, but it's now targeted more in those, in those segments like mutual funds

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah, for

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

are there players or movements to try to define what new PE is? Or is that, is it the Wild West and it's like kind of scattershot and it's gonna coalesce to something over time maybe, probably, but right now it's all over the place?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

it's largely coalesced

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

certainly coalescing if it's... I don't think it's a scattershot, uh, anymore.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

No

From Scattershot to Focus

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I think that scattershot stuff went away probably 10 years ago, 15 years ago, if not longer. I mean, I, we've been, we've been involved in private equity, Rory and I, about 25 years now.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh man,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

So everyone is starting to use that mutual fund language and start, starting to talk about it in the same way, like within the industry itself

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I, i- it was already moving kind of that direction. Like I said, uh, the private equity firm the three of us worked with positioned themselves as growth equity, weren't huge, and they focused

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

They were like boutique, B-E

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

four specific verticals. Yep, four specific verticals, and they said, "We're, we only invest in these four specific verticals." They have a managing director for each, and they know that vertical like the back of their

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

And it wasn't just the vertical, it was like the characteristics of the firm leadership. Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

like a mutual fund. It, we, we invest in this,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

and if you want this ki- if you want exposure to this market, you invest with us. And if you, you don't invest with us if you don't want exposure to this market, 'cause that's all you're getting. And we, we should be part of your equity portfolio or your alternative investment portfolio, not your whole alternative investment portfolio, 'cause we focus on, you know, things that look like this

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

is the motivation for a potential PE rebrand from, "Oh, people, the pub- the general public thinks we're vultures," versus, "We just want clarity. Like, we want some distinction

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

You

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

in this big amorphous nebulous-"

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

thing- things like this tend to start with I don't know, how do I put it? Like, the biggest needle movers. This isn't probably something that's come up with, a really small boutique private equity firm, right? 'Cause they have their, they have their, um, their playing field for which they operate pretty well defined. You know, uh, uh, naturally I think about like the Blackstones and the KKRs

Retail Money Changes Everything

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

and the stuff like that. And one of the things that I think is driving the thought around this is the fact that this is now something available to like pretty much everybody, right? Like, so as we said, you can, you can invest in some of these publicly traded massive funds, but also you're trying to get 401k funds and, and individuals to put their money into these funds from their retirement account, right? So like, know, accreditation rules, I don't know if those themselves are going to change, but like if, know, a company offers a 401k plan to somebody that's new out of college making 40 grand a year or something like that, you know, and they're socking money away into a 401k, and then every year when you're doing open enrollment, you get to choose the little funds you put stuff into. You know, like they want retail... The, they characterize that kind of money is retail money, retail investors, right? That's, that's maybe in some ways, if you don't have to manage the day-to-day communications with retail investors, maybe some of the best money you could take 'cause, you know, uh, bless, bless these folks, but not all the most sophisticated investors. So it's just like easy capital to manage. But like you're trying to demo- I hate to use this term, but it sounds... private equity investment to the masses, and there's trillions of dollars of that on

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Sounds like opium of the masses.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I know, right? Like I, I, I wanted to punch myself as I was saying that. Um, like it... But, but that's what it is. It's like how do you get the most capital into your funds

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

the most cheaply, right? Like, so, um, you know, like the average retail investor is expecting a 5% to 7% return annually, right? Back in the day, you know, when it, like LPs in these funds were expecting mid double digits, like 15% plus generally, and that was being delivered. I don't know. So the game has changed. It's more like we, we want the public to see this as a good viable value option to invest alongside of, know, um, in, you know, AI tech stocks let's say, for example, you know? Uh, so I don't know. It's very interesting. I think, you know, who's... Is, is there anything actually organized orchestrating this? I don't know that there really is. I think it was a really clever article and a very interesting thought That turned kind of a history lesson into like, where are we at with this today? Which really results in, you know, we're trying to differentiate ourselves from private credit. We're trying to, um, you know, get away from this notion that we're vultures and we're, you know, yet we still invest in private companies. So what do you do with all that? How do you make that something that people

Why PE Intimidates People

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

can glom

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

By the way, when people say... Like, what have people said when you're like, "I am co-authoring and I co-host a private equity book and podcast"? What ha- what has like family, friends, colleagues, what, what's people's reactions?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

The f- I, I, I'm being completely honest about that. There-- I get th-this like, "Wow, that seems incredibly complicated," or, "That seems really of my league to listen to." I'm like: No, please listen. Like,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

For you

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

is made for, this is made for you. And I also have people that, you know, even just last week, somebody was like, "I listen to every single episode you guys put out. I learn so much." And I was like,

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Good. Oh

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

And, and they were being sincere. They weren't just saying it to me, you know? Like, but, you know, I wish I would see, get that feedback on Amazon through all the, the reviews that we would be

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Drop us some reviews, listeners, please.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

us

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Exactly. Let's get this great information out to the masses. But all, all that to be said is I think it still is a complicated term that intimidates people is my point.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

And what about you?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

No, I think I, I'll go with what Rory just said. I think it's, there is an intimidation factor associated with it, and as they move to a more retail kind of attempting to bring in retail money, it does two things. One, it, it's, gonna continue to see asset inflow, which... And it's tough to get big multiples on big assets. Big numbers are tough to

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

It truly is. Just look at Berkshire Hathaway. Today I was reading that they have like $313 billion of cash sitting on their

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Man

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

And like they did a couple of $10 billion deals this weekend, and it's like that makes no dent. You

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Yeah, it does make that.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

it's, I think it's, I think it does become more of a how do we, how do we... But again, the private equity firms, they're driven by assets under management and return, right? They, we've talked a lot about the, the compensation structure and the incentive structure. So it really does become a, we need to simplify to attract that retail. also, we need to simplify our branding. We need to make the branding more intuitive and less intimidating. And I also think it is a, uh, and I'll go again, I'll, I, I now have become a believer in my own Kool-Aid on the, on the

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

It's only a matter of time when that happens.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

a, on a mutual fund thing, which is, which is, y- you know, I, I do think there, there's gonna continue to be a downsizing and a specialization

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

private equity that's going to be part of that retail positioning.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

And it's, and so for retail investors, which is really where the, the growth opportunities are for private equity firms today, is that now that, you know, 401Ks are open to, to pri- to private equity, it's gonna be the, you know, you can get exposure to tech private

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

you can get exposure to tech-enabled services. You can get value, you value creation private

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

you know, this, we do the balance sheet thing and we do the operational excellence thing and, you know, we're not looking for super growth. We're actually trying to optimize this asset. And I, you know, again, if you look at someone like me, that those... I'm not gonna wanna just dump money into something that says private equity. I wanna,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

wanna go, "Okay, what's the, what's the focus?" seen private equity

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

But that's how it was though back in the day. It's like, hey,

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

it was.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

some, some like rich, rich LP was approached, "Hey, you want in on this private equity deal?" "Whoa, I don't know much about that. That's sort of like ephemeral." Like, "Yeah, I got a bunch of cash sitting here." It, it used to be that way, like truly. know, it's like this, this-- Now it's just available, like you say, you know? And I think it's funny what you're saying. What we're talking about here is it's just another, it's just another node to your, your, your mutual fund, um, you know, analysis, which is to say like what we're talking about here is figuring out how to create index funds of private equity for people to get their flavors. And it's like, if you really want to think crazy is who could start up a true equities market for private equity, like a true secondaries market where

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

a fund of

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

it's... Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

which exists by the way. There

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh, there are,

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

that are fund of funds

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

like it's not really known to the masses, right? Like, you know, what, what if I wanted liquidity and I wanted to buy secondaries in, in a, you know, bunch of private equity funds and diversify the same way I would with a basket of public equities? You could do the same fucking thing. It's just somebody needs to create the, the market, you know? the market. I don't know.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

One of the top reactions I get when I say, "I'm doing this thing with, you know, former CEO and CFO, private equity," they go... They literally make this sound, "Ooh," like that. I was like, "Ooh."

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yes. Yes

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

if I, like, tossed a, you know, dirty fish in their face, they would make the same facial re- reaction. So it's like, "Ooh."

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I have a lot of people that promise to listen to it, but they're like, I think still a little bit intimidated, like, "I'm just not gonna understand that." what I will say for us, this is worth telling our listeners, is like, people do listen to it or read the book, they're like, "Oh, light bulb went off. Now I get it." And it's like, man, if we could just get people to take that first bite, take that first hit, so to speak, you know, um, then they'd be hooked. You know, 'cause it really is, it's

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Just one episode. Just one episode. Do you, do

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Right.

Rebrand Without Softening

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

think that in the rebrand to become more attractive and salient for retail investors, they have to soften? Does PE need to soften its image?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

No.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

No

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I agree. No, I don't think so

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

think most people don't want... I don't want a fricking soft image of my investment

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

You want a fierce, blood-sucking, greedy motherfucker

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

recurrence, and I want

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

So I think it's, I think it's actually more a help me understand what I'm actually investing in.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah. Exactly.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

me kind of

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

over this it's a

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

People don't want soft. They want--

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Yeah,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

at all

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

soft.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

investments. It's not a... No

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

plays well, you know, we talk about the, the episode a couple episodes ago where, you know, where like the, the don't mess with our children's sports

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

They, they want soft,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

They do.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

the investor doesn't want soft. equity folks, they, they're b- they're riding that balance between like getting, getting, you know, kind of regulated out of business and, and the public perception versus like our job is to maximize return for our, for our limited partners.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

No. People want that discipline, man, I tell you

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

of a, what's the job of a corporate management is to maximize value for shareholders. And then the issue becomes, okay, well what's value?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

How much is, how much is, is quantifiable versus qualitative? And, you know, what social, how much do you need to have in social equity versus financial equity and those, and those elements. said all that, I don't want soft. I want someone who's focused.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

And that's really, for me, I think the, the private equity rebrand is more about like, here's the focus. H- you can understand what you're getting, what your investment's doing, we're focused and here's the focus and here's... You know? So I think it, it, it does... I, I'm becoming more convinced, yes, a rebrand is necessary and it needs to look

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Why not? You

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

actual

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

it's time.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

How, how plugged in are like

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

It's like literally been like, let's call it this, like, I mean, you know, the author of this particular article put sort of the first private equity deal is 1901 when JP Morgan bought Carnegie Steel for like, what was it? Like 400, 300, I have the note here, you know, $480 million, which actually back then was a crazy amount of money, 1901. Well, a lot of people put the, like RBJ Nabisco is kind of like the one, so let's just call it that one 'cause it's, it makes it seem like we could do a 50th year anniversary of private equity, let's call it, you know, uh, rebrand, right? So you're in your fifth, sixth decade, like it's been roughly 50 years since the private equity deal one could argue. So yeah, it's time. Let's do it. Let's put, we'll put, you know, put a marketing, uh, program around it and like, let's

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

America's turning 250 years old. PE is 50. These are milestones, people.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I'm 47. You know what? Fuck.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I'm older than private equity. Yeah, so

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

You are, Ed. Ed, Ed

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

We need a T-shirt. I'm older than private equity.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

That is

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

We need a T-shirt

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I like that. That could be some cool... You know what? We haven't even begun to talk about the kind of cool merch we could create, you know? We could put some

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Some PEC

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

cool shit out there.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

private equity experience swag

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

1988 would've,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

RJR Nabisco

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Got liquidity, question mark. Like, that's like a T-shirt. No, we don't actually have liquidity

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

you guys have not seen, and I, I have not been able to find this

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Sirens.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Wow, somebody's dying in

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Oh my gosh

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

It's a

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

You wanna, wanna mute yourself there, Barton? Are you, have you got

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

it's my place here in Bellevue that's doing that

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

to understand how-- I want them to know what kind of a hood this is here. Um The, uh,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Dude, the mean streets of

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Talk about soft. Yeah. Oh my gosh

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh my God.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh my God.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

The,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

the...

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh man, I love Anacortes. Oh God

Barbarians and Final Pitch

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

if, if folks haven't seen it, I have not been able to find this movie. I had a VCR tape of this

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Peace.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I, and, I don't know, I, I don't know where it went. Well, I do know where it went. It's, it was lost in a flood. Um, but the, uh, the

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Aw, RIP.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

movie is Barbarians at the

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh yeah, I've read the book

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Well, the, the movie was

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Was it? Oh, dude, I gotta watch it then.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

James

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

actually a crime that I haven't seen that, to be honest with you

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

James Garner was, is Efros Johnson. I mean, it

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Cool. Maybe I'll watch that tonight.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

A- a-

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

gonna

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

do that.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

find it streaming, I can't

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

No? Oh, man

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

mean, it is, but it is an

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Is it on YouTube?

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

You've

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Like you can buy stuff on YouTube sometimes.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Yeah, it's

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

No?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

either. I, I've

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

All right

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

over. I, and I'll look again because I would, I would commend to our, I would commend to all

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Listeners, where can we find Barbarians at the Gate

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Barbarians at the Gate, the, the

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah. Also,

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

it

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

also you'll need to find a VHS player 'cause I don't have one of those laying around.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

I happen to

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

No, you do not, Ed. Why do you have a VHS player?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

does maybe sometimes I don't get rid of things. So

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Well, people have phonographs still, you

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

yeah

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

We love phonographs.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

we like the talkies. We like sound with our movies.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I'll, I'll have to throw my laser disc on. No, just kidding. I don't have a laser disc. Never did

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

it looks like according to my Google machine, it looks like you can currently stream Barbarians at the Gate for free on Roku

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Oh, Roku. All right. There you go.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Okay. girlfriend has

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Roku and Tubi and f- m- like Freezee or free- like all these different fr-

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Hubie. Yeah, but

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

got James Garner, you got Jonathan Pryce, Peter Riegert,

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Jonathan Pryce, great actor

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

going right back to, you got, you know, Jonathan Pryce is, he's badass.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Yeah

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

then he plays Henry Travis.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

No way. I'm totally gonna do that.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

it is, it is

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

All right.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

worth

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

never seen you this excited about

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

No, this is... Yeah. Okay

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

It

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

other than the two of us eating a five-pound burrito

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

What year was this movie made?

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Um, 1993, 1994.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Okay. I was

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

time I was graduating from

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

I was barely a teenager. My goodness.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

All right. All right, we're in.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

go check

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Do we wanna try to

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

the Gate. You'll learn a

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

wrap up the topic or just end with Barbarians at the Gate? Go watch it

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Oh, man. Uh, I think the wrap up here is, yeah, we're right for it, you know? So get a lobby going. Let's get some momentum behind

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Value Creation Fund. I really like that

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Hey, listeners, let's launch PECS itself. Let's be the flag bearers for the new private equity

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Yeah

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

we're doing this. The three of us are going to represent the masses in this initiative. We are, uh, democratizing private equity for everybody. Make it understandable. Make private equity simple again. Let's go the whole thing. Value creation funds. Yes

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Boom We're gonna wrap it there.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Nice.

emily-sander_1_06-03-2026_160244

Bye.

rory-liebhart_1_06-03-2026_160243

Thanks, Sam. Cool.

eddieshizzle-wahoo_1_06-03-2026_160242

Bye

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